TV PIPE SOLUTIONS

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Stephen Boggess with SnapTite of ISCO

Narrator:

Looking to expand his own knowledge of pipe reline and infrastructure rehabilitation, Brett Ekart embarks on the journey into the no dig construction world while interviewing experts in all facets of the industry. Hoping to find answers here is Brett Ekart with Reline Unknown.

Brett:

In this podcast, I sit down with Stephen Boggess, the director of Snap-Tite, a division of ISCO Industries. We discussed how he made his way into the reline industry from the car dealership business, and some cool projects he's been involved in throughout the country. Take a listen.

Brett:

All right. Sitting here with Stephen Boggess from Snap-Tite ISCO. We were able to sneak away from the UCT show over here in Fort Worth, Texas, and kind of get you to the side and pick your brain a little bit and kind of discuss... You guys got a booth here and we co-opted a booth here and just kind of give us a little bit of background on Stephen Boggess and how you got into the reline industry.

Stephen:

Okay. Okay. It was a winding road, I suppose, really through ISCO Industries, which is the parent company of the Snap-Tite product line that I represent. So I'm the Director of the Snap-Tite group that... So we promote Snap-Tite North America, et cetera. And so ISCO Industries, I came on ISCO Industries about nine years ago. It was my first entrance into the piping business. So ISCO is a piping solutions company that focuses on high density polyethylene solid wall, distribution, fabrication, a lot of custom fabrication. And so Snap-Tite, being a solid wall HDPE product is a division of ISCO. And so I had the opportunity after, I suppose, about a year and a half of my introduction to the piping business through ISCO to come on with the Snap-Tite team. And then we had some adjustments in leadership and I was given the opportunity to come on as director.

Brett:

So you direct all the sales force for Snap-Tite across the country?

Stephen:

Correct.

Brett:

Okay.

Stephen:

Correct.

Brett:

And how many regions is that broken up into?

Stephen:

Well, it varies. So, our sales channel for Snap-Tite in some parts of the country, our ISCO Snap-Tite sales guys handle business direct with the end customer, which a lot of times is a contractor, a government agency, et cetera. In other regions of the country, we sell through distribution like with you guys.

Brett:

Correct.

Stephen:

In the eight states out west. We also have regions of the country where we have independent sales reps. And it's really just kind of broken up that way to give us a broad reach because as you know culvert lining is a very niche application still.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

And to give us a presence in all these areas of the country, we need somebody more local. So we definitely have created a partnership. So really for us, we have it broken up to about five regions, but those regions are then broken up with relationships. Certain states with independent reps, certain states we sell direct, certain states we have exclusive distributor relationships.

Brett:

So I'll back it up a little bit, but I always found the story interesting, is how you got into the reline industry. I kind of happenstanced my way into it via having a culvert pipe distribution, and then realizing that this reline industry was out there. And I didn't know a ton about it, so I was trying to learn more about it. And then now here we are today. But you kind of have an interesting story of how you got actually-

Stephen:

A family business.

Brett:

Yeah because-

Stephen:

Family-

Brett:

And that's why you and I can see eye to eye on a lot of stuff. Because you came from a family business that didn't have anything to do with the reline industry. And so, yeah, just give us a little bit of background on that.

Stephen:

So yeah, my family was in the automotive retail business. And after college I spent a year in that business in Lexington, KY, where I went to school. And then came back home and worked for 14 years in the family business with my dad.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

Very interesting.

Brett:

We have a lot of commonalities on that.

Stephen:

It was cool.

Brett:

Working for our dads. Yeah.

Stephen:

Those experiences shaped how I view things today. No doubt. Mistakes made.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

We always hear about successful people learning, so that's what I've tried to do. Because I made some mistakes. My dad made some mistakes. We made some mistakes together. We did a lot of good things.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

But I guess we got to a point, when I was in my mid-30s, and I was going to have to buy him out. He was ready to retire. We had a small market. And basically it was on my shoulders to make the decision to finance my future, buy him out so he could ride off into the sunset. And we had one of those tough family meetings, and I decided not to. Ended up staying in an automotive-related consulting field, a couple different roles for four or five years. And I had a connection with ISCO Industries going back to college. It's all a matter they say who you know, but that's kind of through those business connections is how I ended up at ISCO.

Brett:

And that's how I've recruited a lot of guys that we have with us, is guys I met in college or knew. And then they know people and we just kind of brought them in. So that's why I say, there's so many commonalities in-

Stephen:

Yeah. And really I was comfortable because I knew the automotive field, and frankly I got pretty good at it because I had had those good and bad experiences. I could help those guys in that industry. And it was the '08, '09 to '10, '11 timeframe when that industry, like a lot of other things-

Brett:

It was tough.

Stephen:

Went in the toilet.

Brett:

Yeah. Those times were tough. There's a few years for all industries.

Stephen:

I made the decision to make the jump. And I talked to the guys at ISCO, Jimmy Kirchdorfer and Rick Kraus, for several years about coming on board. And finally I called them up, said, hey, I'm ready to try something new.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

And basically the cool thing about ISCO, and I'll say this, they have a lot... In fact, we just had a meeting a couple weeks ago and Jimmy Kirchdorfer, the CEO, made a point of all the experience that we have in the HDPE industry in particular, in that room, probably more so than any other company in the country.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

And so we have all this experience, all these people from that industry, that have either started at ISCO or come in, but one of the things that's not necessarily a prerequisite. It's good people that are trustworthy, extremely competent, clearly.

Brett:

For sure.

Stephen:

That, hey, we'll come in, bring you in and find the right seat on the bus. We'll get you on the bus, give you some experiences, and then find the right seat for you. That's pretty much what happened to me. I came in, I started in inside sales, which to this day I still say is one of the most difficult jobs I've ever had. It's hard, but it goes against my nature. I like to think and look at all angles to a situation and inside sales man, you're burning and-

Brett:

You're putting out the fire that's right in front of your face, versus sitting up on top of the forest, looking out and trying to figure out where the fire is going or what's going to come up. It seems like that's-

Stephen:

Right. So it was hard. It was hard job, but it was invaluable experience within ISCO to learn the business, learn how the company worked. So then when I did have the opportunity to come in with Snap-Tite, I had to learn the reline business and learn drainage because that's really for Snap-Tite within ISCO, it's very much we are the only real division that works within drainage. Because solid waste HDPE, the benefits of the product and all the other applications and markets that we're in, pressure pipe-

Brett:

Oil and gas.

Stephen:

Oil and gas, landfill, sewer-

Brett:

Golf course irrigation. Yeah. It's-

Stephen:

So you're fusing the pipe, the benefits are withstanding high pressures and aggregate mining, harsh elements inside-

Brett:

Landfill, gas, which seems to be that's kind of a growing-

Stephen:

So for us with Snap-Tite, it's drainage. And we're the only workgroup that deals with drainage. So I had to, I still had to learn that business getting into it. And so that's been eight years now.

Brett:

Yeah. So you've been with a Snap-Tite ISCO for eight years?

Stephen:

Well, I've been with ISCO for nine and with Snap-Tite going on eight.

Brett:

Okay. So coming into the reline industry, coming into the drainage industry, what was kind of the biggest eye-opener for you? Is there something that kind of caught you off guard or something that was super interesting? Was there...?

Stephen:

So I would say the things that go on in that industry, in the construction industry, that are unseen by the general public. That the general public who's not in that world has no clue of the depth and the different dynamics that are being addressed, whether it's new construction or rehabilitation, really rehabilitation too.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

That all these things are going on pretty much unseen. You drive down the road and there's a construction site, you may look over and see that there's some guys working in the ditch, but you don't really don't know what they're doing. You don't think about it. You're just driving down the road.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

But initially that was kind of what stuck with me was, man, there's this vast industry with all of these different offshoots. That was-

Brett:

I was talking to a guy yesterday at the UCT show and he was telling me, he goes, it really truly is like a baby industry in the fact that it's in its infant stage. It's not a fully developed industry yet. And so that's why you're always seeing these new products and these new applications and all this stuff coming to the table because it is a truly growing industry. And especially in the West, we see it in the West a lot.

Stephen:

Right. Right.

Brett:

And I've mentioned that a few times on this podcast is our infrastructure's still fairly new in the whole grand scheme of things to the Midwest and the East Coast.

Stephen:

Sure.

Brett:

But you guys, with you being the national sales director, you see infrastructure Northeast, Southeast, you see some old stuff. And they've been rehabbing for a lot of years.

Stephen:

It's definitely different in the different regions of the country with what they're addressing and the challenges.

Brett:

So what are some of those differences? I mean, for example, just tell me-

Stephen:

The density of the population, which therefore then you have density of roadways and traffic. It's high volumes. And then of course, regionally, you have geographic different topography, different types of soils, different types of landscapes. So a lot of different dynamics and really in the, I guess, Northeast where it's not mature... It's more mature than it is say out here or in your part of the country. And-

Brett:

There's a lot of water. I mean, when you look at a map and you look at a topographical map and you look at it and, this is what blew my mind my first time to Maine, was all the little tributaries and streams and parts of the ocean and all that. And you look at that map and you're like, "These guys are trying to move water." And that's a big part of that infrastructure is just trying to move water.

Stephen:

Right. Well, and it changes so much because of new construction. The infrastructure that was built a hundred years ago, 50 years ago, 25 years ago, as the cities broadened and as the new construction and they change where the water goes, creates other problems. So, that's definitely a moving target as the population moves.

Brett:

I was just reading an article here this morning, and it said there was four million miles of roadway in the United States, which is crazy. Largest on a mileage basis in the world. I mean, nobody has more roadways than we do here in the United States from an infrastructure standpoint. And they were talking how many millions of culverts are buried underneath these roadways. Right? Some buried six months ago, some have been buried for 80 to 100 years.

Stephen:

Sure.

Brett:

And so when we talk about if a culvert design life is somewhere between 30 to 50 years, depending on who you talk to or-

Stephen:

Right.

Brett:

What they say. I mean, not only is the industry growing, but you can see where there's a potential for a ton of growth, especially as the cities build out and they build infrastructure on top of these roadways or close to where you don't have the option to dig.

Stephen:

Right.

Brett:

You're not going to have that now.

Stephen:

All those roadways you speak of, one of the challenges in certain parts of the country is just identifying what is there and having a good inventory. That's the biggest challenge I think for a lot of, whether it's government or DOT government agencies at the state level, or even cities and counties, knowing what they have first. And then having a plan in place and a process to routinely inspect them to know what condition they're in.

Brett:

That seems like the biggest push that I've... The more of these podcasts that I've done, the more people I've talked to is trying to get the municipalities, the dot gov, the owners of the pipe to even just go and inspect them.

Stephen:

Right.

Brett:

Know that you've got some stuff out there that needs repaired, replaced, relined, whatever that is, whatever needs done, just trying to get the inspection process.

Stephen:

It's a challenge for those agencies. I mean, they have limited funds, limited personnel as budgets have reduced. And in a lot of cases, they've eliminated positions. It's that part of it goes the opposite direction of the growing need.

Brett:

Yeah. So what is the biggest challenge for the reline industry? What do you see as the-

Stephen:

Funding.

Brett:

Funding.

Stephen:

Clearly funding in my mind.

Brett:

Okay.

Stephen:

And, yeah, it's funding.

Brett:

Just trying to figure out who's going to pay for the work. Right?

Stephen:

Right. Right. Well, we mentioned we have our trade show set up and we have our booth background and we have a photo on there of a deteriorated culvert. And whether we're at this show, or especially when we're at DOT or government agency shows, engineers, a road supervisor, whatever the target audience is. And they come by and they see that, oh wow, we've got some of those. Everybody says we've got some of those.

Brett:

And it's so deteriorated that the-

Stephen:

And the one that's on that picture, I mean, it's bad.

Brett:

It's crazy. Yeah. And those people are like, we know what that looks like. We have some of those.

Stephen:

Right.

Brett:

And you're like, well, at what point are you going to address it?

Stephen:

Right. There's no lack of the problem. It's out there and it's growing. Every day that goes by that the problem is growing. And frankly, our funding, now I say it's going backwards. It's going backwards because, in a lot of cases, the funding for roadways and infrastructure has stayed the same for so long, but the costs continue to go up. So therefore it's going backwards. I'm not a political expert on the history of funding, but the gas taxes, the federal gas tax, the state gas taxes, go a long way in funding infrastructure. And what is it? The federal gas tax has been the same for 25 years.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

18 cents, give or take.

Brett:

But the cost of work has gone up.

Stephen:

Cost of work has-

Brett:

The cost of labor has gone up. The cost of diesel has gone up. The cost of buying excavator to do the work has gone up. I mean, all those costs, just like time-value of money.

Stephen:

Correct.

Brett:

I mean, just that in and of itself, 25 years, what's a dollar worth to what it's today. What can you get for a dollar?

Stephen:

Right.

Brett:

I mean, but if you use that-

Stephen:

18 cents in 1993 or '94 is the last time it's changed.

Brett:

And you could see where you had... I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if the need is growing for all the rehab is the rehab work, the potential rehab work is growing. But the monetary, the number is staying the same. I mean, you can see where that crosses and you get to play a big game of catch up.

Stephen:

Right. I think one of the things happened recently is more states are seeing that and themselves adjusting their state level gas tax. Which a lot of those... because there's federal gas tax, there's state gas tax, in a lot of cases there's local gas tax.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

So when you pay at the pump, that's all built into what you're paying. And so many of those haven't moved for a long time. But they're starting at the state level to increase those. And so that's where the opportunity as those increase and as those funds are allocated directly toward transportation infrastructure and a lot of it being rehabilitation, that's where the opportunity-

Brett:

And who pushes that? Is that lobbyist firms? I mean, who pushes the motivation to the government decision makers to increase funding for rehabilitation in your standpoint?

Stephen:

There's some independent agencies that do studies that bring awareness to it. As far as actual lobbying groups, I'm not that familiar with it, as far as who would push.

Brett:

I mean, is it just like a matter of getting everybody that's involved in the rehabilitation industry, the infrastructure rehabilitation industry, and saying "Go to your local lawmakers, your people putting these budgets in place, and express the need to generate funding for these projects,"? I mean-

Stephen:

I think anybody and everybody.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

Because the biggest fear for politicians is putting new taxes in place. And it kills their political livelihood.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

They're going to be the guy that raised taxes and they're squashed. So that's the fear from the political side is raising taxes and nobody likes taxes raised.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

I don't either.

Brett:

But with 2020 being a big year, we're having a big presidential race and you can see it's already heating up. It's going to be super interesting to see how much infrastructure talk is involved in that conversation.

Stephen:

Right.

Brett:

Is it a big hot button? Because in 2016, it was a big button. That was a big part of that presidential race. It was infrastructure and a couple other things. But I wonder if that's not going to bear some fruit again at some point here this year. We're going to see infrastructure conversation.

Stephen:

It'll be interesting to see. I think regardless of which side of the aisle wins, there's always talk.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

The issue is not for one side or the other, it's for everybody.

Brett:

Exactly.

Stephen:

Both sides need to address it, regardless of who wins. Problem is so many times what's talked about in the campaign and once it comes to law-

Brett:

When it actually comes down to rubber meets the road.

Stephen:

Right.

Brett:

Is it really going to happen? And I don't care whether that's right or left. Does the rubber meet the road?

Stephen:

So, I don't think we'll ever see these things you see in the campaign come to fruition as they're presented, but if they can just chip away at it year by year, that's what's got to happen.

Brett:

So talk to me a little bit about the Snap-Tite product. Talk to me kind of, what's the positives, negatives? What is it when you look at a project and you're like, "That's definitely a Snap-Tite project." What is that?

Stephen:

Well, definitely the best scenario for Snap-Tite is open-ended culverts drainage, doesn't necessarily have to be under a roadway. Actually we do a lot of work with levees, Corps of Engineers has us specified for levee drainage rehabilitation. So levees, dams, airports, shopping malls, in addition to roadways. But one end open is the best scenario. And as far as the condition, the interesting thing about Snap-Tite relative to other rehab methods, it definitely has, we consider, a very broad application window.

Brett:

Okay.

Stephen:

So a lot of times we'll have engineers or owners look at a culvert and they're thinking it's got to be dug into place. And well, no, wait a minute, let's take a closer look. Just because that invert is gone doesn't mean it can't be rehabbed. And so Snap-Tite definitely performs well in those gnarly situations as I call them. But drainage culvert, open-ended on one hand, that's the best case scenario. Our product is used in some scenarios in closed-end systems, we just have to make shorter sticks. And depending on the dynamics of that closed-end system, it can still be just as good of a solution as it is in open-ended culverts. But definitely open-ended culverts are what we see the-

Brett:

And from a structural standpoint, I mean, one of the advantages of a solid wall product like Snap-Tite is the structure it can provide when you-

Stephen:

Correct. Correct. And it's really the application of segmental lining with a pipe and grouting it in place. It's the grout that creates that structural repair. We feel like, and through research and experience, better than a lot of other options. Because when you grout it and if you use the correct kind of grout, and it's a low density, a lot of times cellular grout, where it flows very much like water into the angler space. But what it's doing is it's going to seep through the holes or the deterioration of the host pipe, into the voids that are outside the host pipe.

Stephen:

That's the biggest thing with rehabilitation under these roadways where you see, whether it's on the roadway or on the shoulders, where sediment has started to settle. If you just line the inside of the pipe and don't address the voids outside the host pipe, you're really not completing the repair. You're bandaiding it. So with the process of slip lining with Snap-Tite and grouting it in place, and if it's done properly with the right checks and making sure that that grout is seeping into those voids, we feel like it's, if not the best, one of the best longterm structural sound repairs for the culverts.

Brett:

So, I mean, when I think about the HDPE product, I mean, that's one of the advantages I see. Is there any disadvantages? I mean, is there any projects that you're like, "Maybe we aren't the best answer for that?"

Stephen:

Well I say the scenarios, there are a couple. Definitely there are some scenarios where there are some other products that are better suited. And I think a lot of it has to do with what the owner is trying to accomplish. And that goes back to their inspection process and their inventory and their longterm plans for what they need to do with their infrastructure. And having that plan in place, and then making the decision on what repair method is best based on that longterm plan. As an example, some of the less structural repairs or less expensive repairs that can be done on culverts, if they've got a major interchange that's going to be restructured in the next five to 10 years, they don't necessarily need a 50 to a hundred year fix. They need a bandaid to get them through till they're going to dig all that up anyway.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

So, yes, go with something less expensive that may not be as structural because it's not a longterm fix. So those are some scenarios. It's really based on-

Brett:

Because you guys are the longterm fix.

Stephen:

Ours is a longterm fix.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

The design life of HDPE is 100 plus years based on some various studies. Obviously the product hadn't been out there for a hundred years yet, but it's absolutely 50 plus. And for the drainage application, it's going to be a 100 plus because it's not a volatile environment that we're going into with the product. So you have that's really what we lean on is those folks that are looking for a longterm structural repair. I would say the other scenario that I will mention is hydraulics.

Brett:

Okay.

Stephen:

Sometimes with a pipe inside of a pipe, you're going to have some hydraulic deficiencies because the pipe is smaller. The inside of the pipe smooth less friction. The lower Manning's coefficient so the water's going to get through the pipe faster.

Brett:

Yeah. That was something cool that I learned when we first started into the reline industry is you could take a larger pipe, that's a corrugated pipe, and because of the way it's rippled, the way the corrugation, which is what gives it structure once it's buried, you take that ripple out of it, you put a smooth wall product in there-

Stephen:

Right.

Brett:

You actually pick up flow. And you can reduce it by a pretty decent amount and still pick up flow.

Stephen:

Correct.

Brett:

Which I think a lot of people, but when you think about it, it makes sense. But when it was initially presented me, I was like this makes, but then I'm like, oh, because you're pushing the water-

Stephen:

The simplest way to explain it is the water gets through the pipe faster.

Brett:

Yep.

Stephen:

So therefore, if you have ponding on this end, the water is going to get through faster therefore. Of course that's just one dynamic.

Brett:

Yeah. For sure.

Stephen:

Of the hydraulic components of a culvert. I'm not a hydraulic engineer so-

Brett:

And neither am I.

Stephen:

I don't pretend to be.

Brett:

Neither am I. I definitely pretend not to be.

Stephen:

If there are inlet conditions that affect how much water can get in the pipe, that's one of the primary additional components, which we have the Hydro-Bell, which we promote as an inlet enhancement device. And there are others. But the hydraulic in particular that can help get that water into the pipe faster, into a smaller opening. So a lot of times when an engineer or an owner is looking for solutions and all they think about is downsizing the pipe, they need to take these other things in consideration. But there are scenarios where it does make more sense from a hydraulic situation to go to a different solution that won't downsize the pipe as much so...

Brett:

So what's one of the coolest projects you've been involved in? I mean, I'm sure you've been involved in a ton of them because obviously you get the whole country.

Stephen:

Right.

Brett:

You get to see a lot of different work, but what's one of the, one or two or whatever, one of the projects that kind of stuck out to you that was pretty cool to be involved in for Snap-Tite?

Stephen:

Wow. Probably the levee. We were involved in a pretty extensive levee project down in Louisiana, Mississippi, the tributaries off the Mississippi. And this was one that the project was directly put out by the Corps of Engineers and contractor won it. And it was, gosh, I can't remember how many different locations, but the dynamics of... And that being such a highly-focused issue after the whole Katrina, which now has been what, 15 years ago. And the focus on the levee infrastructure.

Stephen:

And most people don't think about their drainage pipes and levees because the rainwater has to still be able to get into the river. So the water drains from the high side of the river, but then they have the gates to shut off those drainage pipes under flooding scenarios. So that was a really cool one just because of the application.

Stephen:

Gosh, we've had a lot of very interesting scenarios. Most of them are dictated... I think of one down in Louisiana, another one in Louisiana ironically, under some very, very busy roads and the option to dig and replace is extremely limited. And you look at some of those and the condition of the pipes that they're in. And again, that's one of those where they look at it and say, "We're going to have to dig in a place." Well, no, wait a minute, let's... We've had a lot of successful projects like that where initially the thought was it can't be done.

Brett:

So when you look back, I mean, over time, with you having been in the industry for eight, nine years, is there anybody that's been pretty influential, that's taught you a lot, that you've learned a lot from? I mean, is it all trial by fire, by error? Is it, I mean, just throw yourself in the fire and go? Or is there anybody out there that's kind of helped you in your career as far as on the reline side?

Stephen:

So probably folks internally within ISCO that have been with snap Snap-Tite for longer than I have and have been in that industry. Ron Harrington is one of our top sales guys and he's been doing this for 10, 12 plus years, been with ISCO for 20 plus years.

Brett:

Nice.

Stephen:

Huge source of information. Don LeBlanc is a guy who hasn't necessarily been with ISCO for as long and has a lot of experience. He's an engineer. The folks with the technical background I lean on.

Brett:

And within the ISCO umbrella, you have a ton of engineers, right, that are always working on projects?

Stephen:

We have two guys, Don McGriff and Mike Whitehouse that work for ISCO. They're technical directors. And those guys deal with a broad range of applications for HDPE, but they really appreciate the interest they've taken in Snap-Tite through the years to really help us understand more about the application and how our product's being used.

Brett:

They find opportunities where it could be a good fit?

Stephen:

Well, and then help us identify when it's not. And what are those pitfalls? Last thing we want to do is put our product in situation that's either it's going to fail or it's not the best solution.

Brett:

Yeah.

Stephen:

So we have to be able to identify that and tell the owner or the contractor, hey, this is not necessarily the best scenario for our product for you as the owner or the contractor. So those guys are really good at holding our hand through those scenarios.

Brett:

That's the advantage of being kind of a part of a bigger corporation is you get those extra resources that you have available to you. They're in the same office.

Stephen:

Right.

Brett:

You can walk a few cubes down or down the hallway and like, "Hey, I know you're not directly involved in the Snap-Tite side of the business, but here's the scenario we're looking at. Does it work? Does it not work?"

Stephen:

Right.

Brett:

That's a huge advantage.

Stephen:

For us, our product is solid wall HDPE. And it's used in so many different applications. And that's where there are some similarities and I can lean on those folks for input. Well, in this, one of the neat things we've got going on now that's outside of my deal is some of the remediation going on with power plants and such, and how our product's being used in those scenarios. And some of those are similar.

Brett:

Yeah. That's cool. So we'll wrap it up, but if somebody wanted to get hold of you, somebody wanted to reach out to you, what's the best way to get ahold of Stephen Boggess?

Stephen:

Well, I would direct them to our website for Snap-Tite, www.culvert-rehab.com.

Brett:

Okay.

Stephen:

All of our information is there, contact info. ISCO-pipe.com is our ISCO website. Those are the two best resources to find us or me in particular. Direct email, Stephen.BoggessISCO-pipe.com. Shoot me an email.

Brett:

Perfect. And we'll post that on the bottom. So if anybody wants to reach out and get some more information or whatever, then they can get ahold of you.

Stephen:

Absolutely.

Brett:

Thank you, sir, for sitting down. I appreciate you taking the time away from the show and doing the podcast.

Stephen:

Very good. Thanks for having me.

Brett:

Thank you.

Brett:

America's aging underground infrastructure will need to be dealt with in the upcoming years. Our mission with Reline Unknown is to help individuals and organizations gain insight into the pipe reline and infrastructure world, and help process the key decision, reline or replace. Thank you for listening.