Reline Unknown Transcription


Brett Ekart and Cassie Jordan for Reline Unknown

Speaker 1 (00:04):

Looking to expand his own knowledge of pipe reline and infrastructure rehabilitation. Brett Ekart embarks on the journey into the no day construction world while interviewing experts in all facets of the industry, hoping to find answers here is Brett Ekart with Reline Unknown.

Brett Ekart (00:24):

In this podcast I sit down with Cassie Jordan from TV Pipe Solutions. We talk about women in construction, how she got into the reline industry from the tech world, and what makes her different than people who have been in the industry for 20 or 30 years.

Brett Ekart (00:39):

All right, I'm sitting here with Cassie Jordan on a cold blistery winter day in Idaho, seeing what's going on in the reline world. How are you doing Cassie?

Cassie Jordan (00:48):

Good, how are you?

Brett Ekart (00:49):

I'm doing well. So, first off we're going to start with just how you got into the reline business, a little work history and how you got into the wonderful world of construction.

Cassie Jordan (01:02):

Okay. So my background, 15 years I spent in the tech world, so whether it was for hardware technology, software technology. And I was always in marketing, got my degree in marketing. So I spent a lot of time in what they called field marketing, which is working with sales, working with your channel partners, which we would be what we, in this world, we call reseller distributor. So I would build programs for them to hit sales goals. So whether they had a sales goal of $5 million of our product, how does the manufacturing company, our company that sells it, get them there, because those resellers need that financial support and those programs built for them. So that in a nutshell is what I did for 15 years.

Brett Ekart (01:50):

And then.

Cassie Jordan (01:51):

And then.

Brett Ekart (01:52):

You got into the reline world.

Cassie Jordan (01:57):

Right. So obviously there's something that crosses over industries regardless. It doesn't matter if it's, I know everything about construction or I knew everything about different technologies I went to work for. It's can you build a program? Can you hit sales goals? Can you make sure that you're constantly realigning your goals based on what's working and what's not working? And ultimately at the end of the day, that can transfer across to any industry. So when I was approached by you about this opportunity, you obviously knew that too. Like it didn't matter if software and technology didn't correlate to construction. It matters of can you build programs and still focus on sales goals for a different industry, right?

Brett Ekart (02:43):


Cassie Jordan (02:44):

So at the end of the day, that's sort of where we are and why we're sitting here. That's how I got into it.

Brett Ekart (02:50):

I like it. So, as of today, what is your current role in the company? What other roles have you had in the reline industry? And give us just a little bit more background, what roles do you have now [inaudible 00:03:05] involved in the last year and a half.

Cassie Jordan (03:07):

Right. Almost exactly a year and a half now. So my current role is all sales and marketing for TV Pipe Solutions. So, that includes an eight state territory exclusively selling Snap-Tite. But when we say solutions, we are truly a solutions provider. So I'm working on bringing other products into our entire portfolio to be able to offer, because one product doesn't fit every job. So we're also going to be offering joint seals from HydraTite, we're also going to be offering Centri-Pipe, which is a centrifugally cast cement liner. So things like that. And that's where I'm trying to find the right products to building that portfolio but also make sure we hit sales goals, work with the sales team to increase their knowledge of the reline industry as well as mine. Since I really am still fairly green in this market.

Cassie Jordan (03:59):

Before that I was running a manufacturing facility that was making a product called InnerFlow, a solid wall mechanical joint HDPE product. So the challenges of that was really fun.

Brett Ekart (04:14):

So where was InnerFlow located? That's good, I mean, somebody ... you being based out of Idaho, InnerFlow was located-

Cassie Jordan (04:21):

New Castle, Indiana.

Brett Ekart (04:23):

Okay. So about an hour East of Indianapolis.

Cassie Jordan (04:26):

Right. And with that, so I did that for my first year coming in and I ran everything. I mean, production schedules, sales, marketing, trying to get our brand out there, whether I was flying to Boston in January for a trade show, driving to Maine in the snowstorm for sales kickoffs. I mean, it's just whatever needed to be done, but building the brand helps build the sales. So that's really what I was focused on, were those two things. Meanwhile still making sure that the facility in Indiana knew what they were supposed to be doing. Getting those guys safety training and getting those guys extrusion weld certified, things like that, that were happening back in the plant.

Cassie Jordan (05:11):

Orders constantly changing. I mean, the one nice thing about running sales is that I could also shift priorities of orders based on need and what the demand was for the projects.

Brett Ekart (05:23):

Versus say relying on a manufacturer or whatever. When you are the manufacturer you-

Cassie Jordan (05:26):

You can do that and control that.

Brett Ekart (05:27):

Row the boat the direction it needs to go.

Cassie Jordan (05:31):

As well as the inventory we have to, obviously there was a lot of pipe on the ground that we needed on the ground to be able to cut the pipe to get the orders out quicker, which helped us win jobs.

Brett Ekart (05:41):

Okay. So now your role is, if you're not running a manufacturing plant, then what is your role today?

Cassie Jordan (05:48):

So, with the new TV Pipe Solutions, my role is going to be marketing that brand and then all the products that we're going to bring under. So really my role on the next immediate probably three months and six months is a lot of education. I need to learn about what I don't know in the reline industry versus what I do know and what I have spent a year and a half learning. There's a lot more to learn. So even these podcasts and sitting down with just picking brains of industry experts is going to be hugely beneficial.

Brett Ekart (06:22):

Yeah, I agree.

Cassie Jordan (06:23):

Because there's a lot that we don't know what we're up against.

Brett Ekart (06:26):

So you're on a similar learning path as I.

Cassie Jordan (06:29):


Brett Ekart (06:29):

Trying to learn as much as you can about this industry and getting smart people involved and trying to pick their brains and see what people have been doing this for 10, 15, 20, 30 years or more and just trying to figure out like where this train goes.

Cassie Jordan (06:44):

Yep. But also building the relationships. Now that I'm not focused on an entire country and we're limited to our eight States, there's going to be a lot more face time that we can have with customers and really getting to know their business. On a national level, one person or two people can't do that very well. It's too big of a territory. So now there's going to be where we can actually get out and do, we can go spend a day at installs and do things like that because we're not so spread so thin.

Brett Ekart (07:14):

That makes sense. So what was a big eye opener about the reline or construction industry for that matter coming from the tech world? Was there something that stuck out more than anything else? Was it just a whole change of pace, speed, I mean, anything that just stuck out versus what you used to do in the tech world?

Cassie Jordan (07:36):

Yeah. So obviously there's a much larger lack of technology in the construction world, because coming from a tech company, they're always using the latest and greatest. Where in construction, these guys are out in the field. These guys are dealing with heavy machinery. They're not necessarily caring about using the latest technology. The other thing that I've really noticed is there's not a lot of direct competition, more so competition in like a bigger, a broader sense of you're trying to figure out all the different products that could fit one thing, but there's very little lack of direct competition on products. Does that make sense?

Brett Ekart (08:16):

So, every company has their niche product?

Cassie Jordan (08:20):

Yes. Yeah.

Brett Ekart (08:21):

Is that what they prefer to use or like to use? That's kind of, or they have a couple that's their wheelhouse essentially.

Cassie Jordan (08:27):

Yeah. So just that, that's different because in the software and tech world you usually have, you could have 15, 20, 50 competitors literally selling the exact same firewall. And that is not the case here. All the products have some sort of advantage and disadvantage that's different because they're not competing on the exact same level.

Brett Ekart (08:52):

Okay, [crosstalk 00:08:53] that makes sense. I can see that. So I was doing a little research ahead of our podcast and one thing that always attracted me to having females in male dominated industries. I have a history in the scrap metal recycling business and that's a predominantly male dominated industry. The construction industries are really predominantly male dominated industry and I was googling, and I found the fact that women make up only 9% of the whole construction workforce. That includes sales, actual boots on the ground, everything. A, did you know that percentage? And B, what makes you think that you as one of the 9% can be successful in the construction industry?

Cassie Jordan (09:40):

No, I did not know that fact actually. I mean, I knew it was small, but that's really small. I think part of what can make me successful is I'm not from the reline business. So I can come in with a fresh set of eyes and give an outside perspective. I haven't been doing this for 30 years, using the same product or knowing, I don't know, thinking I know everything because I've been there for 30 years. I come in going, "Hey, I don't know a lot about this, but at first glance here's what I can recommend." But I can have, I can be very open minded to talking to an engineer and hearing their perspective and why might they not think this product is the right fit versus that product. But I can be open to that because I'm not set in my ways, which I think is very true in any industry. A lot of people, once they think they know that industry in and out, it's like they're maybe not open to new ideas or learning more.

Brett Ekart (10:45):

That makes sense. It'd be almost like [a 00:10:47] like a generational business and the new generation comes in and they don't see the same, still see things the same way their parents saw them, or their ex CEO saw them. You look at with a fresh set of eyes and say, "Well, maybe there's opportunity for us to install this or look at this product or maybe this product is new." Or I could see that with say a solutions company where you're not really tied in all the way to say one specific product. You can give you an opinion on a couple. Even though you have a few that you feel are your strongest products to go at certain jobs, it's still a fresh set of eyes. Never ever hurts the cause. So what is ... you have a background in solid wall mechanical joint. Just me knowing that. Is that your strongest knowledge base? Is that the solid wall?

Cassie Jordan (11:40):

I would say today, absolutely. I mean, running a plant for a year, selling that pipes, solely selling that pipe for a year and not selling really much else. I mean, obviously I did sell some profile, I shouldn't obviously, I did sell some profile wall product in larger diameters. That's a great option when you're outside of solid wall sizes.

Brett Ekart (12:04):

Which is made by? When you were selling it, what were you selling?

Cassie Jordan (12:06):


Brett Ekart (12:07):

Made by? Who was the company that manufactured?

Cassie Jordan (12:11):

Infra Pipe.

Brett Ekart (12:12):


Cassie Jordan (12:12):

Infra Pipe, yeah.

Brett Ekart (12:12):

And they're based out of Canada?

Cassie Jordan (12:13):

They're based out of Canada, correct. Yep. And they have a competitive product called ... competitor down in Texas called Spirolite, who makes a profile wall product, which I have personally never seen or sold. So those are the two main products. But outside of that, since that was my literally main focus and those are the jobs I was going out and seeing getting installed. And that's really what I had my knowledge base around. So now that's why I'm saying I'm now in learning mode on the solution side of what other things are out there when solid wall isn't the right fit?

Brett Ekart (12:47):

Okay. So, that was going into my next question. So what makes a solid wall mechanical joint pipe the right fit or the wrong fit? What is its strengths and weaknesses for anybody out there just curious? How does a Snap-Tite product work or how does a profile wall Weholite product work? What are the pros and cons of it?

Cassie Jordan (13:10):

So obviously HDPE is very durable, has a very long lifespan. I mean it's guaranteed 50 years. They say, they being no one knows because it hasn't been around long enough that you're not going to touch that pipe for over a hundred years. It's tough pipe. We have a video of an install we just did, we went to and filmed last week and they literally just dropped the pipe down in a 15-foot trench. And it's tough pipe. So you can do that. And didn't even damage the joints for them to be snapped together and slipped under the road. So there's a lot of benefits to that. You add, hydraulically, you add flow because if you're going from a corrugated pipe, I mean, in most situations if you're not downsizing it too much, you're going to increase your hydraulics.

Brett Ekart (14:03):

Which is the Manning's rating, correct?

Cassie Jordan (14:05):


Brett Ekart (14:06):

Okay. So Manning's rating ... so, if you look at say a concrete pipe versus a corrugated pipe, the Manning's rating going down in size isn't going to adjust that much or it will, is it still smoother than say a concrete wall?

Cassie Jordan (14:23):

it's still smoother than a ... because it's a smooth wall inside, yep, inside and out. So even from a concrete, if you can not downsize too much on a concrete and line it with a solid wall, you'll still gain flow. I mean, there's always going to be an engineer who has to stamp the hydraulics of it. And that's where I never pretend to be an engineer and know that that's 100% going to work. But they'll look at it and typically your answer's going to be that you're going to increase flow. And there's only, on rare cases you will get an engineer who will be concerned about that increase in flow on the outlet end because the water, the velocity of the water is coming out so strong. Some of the sediment, it can push out debris quickly. There's just the different things that can come up with that.

Brett Ekart (15:10):

So moving. So, those are the strengths of the solid wall, like a Snap-Tite product or Weholite product. What are the weaknesses of that product compared to other products that exist out there in the reline world?

Cassie Jordan (15:24):

Well, so with solid wall, some of it is that your diameter. You're going to have to, you can only go to 63-inch pipe. So that will push you out of any large diameter projects where that's where profile wall can come in. Profile wall, though, typically it's going to be extrusion welded, so that sometimes a lot of, if contractors don't have that certification or someone that can do that, that won't always be the best option. Other products can be less expensive and a lot of times, most of the time, it comes down to cost. They're going to go out and if they can spec a job three different ways and if it's going to be a long run that they'll come in and do a cured in place for half the cost of HDPE, then an engineer might be willing to do that. So a lot of it's education, educating the engineers too on when is HDPE a better fit. Even [inaudible 00:16:22] profile wall, solid wall versus a cured in place, or when is a concrete liner a better fit than other products.

Brett Ekart (16:30):

So what percentage of jobs do you think are government, a dot-gov job, versus say a private job? Because anything that's dot-gov usually is bid out. They're usually looking for the cheapest cost. Not necessarily all the time, but it seems to go that way a lot of times. In the year and a half you've been selling solid wall mechanical joint pipe, what percentage of the bids are dot-gov jobs roughly speaking? Is it half, is it three quarters?

Cassie Jordan (17:03):

Yeah. No. I wouldn't even say that much. I would say ... I mean, if you're talking Snap-Tite specifically, maybe 15%. But it really varies by engineers and the installers in the state. Does the install crew really get to dictate what goes in that pipe? Do they get to go look at it and say, "Hey, this is the best product." And the engineer has an open mind to say, "Okay." Or is it really just totally up to an engineer and what their personal preferences on different. So when I was doing this nationally, states varied a lot.

Brett Ekart (17:37):

Okay. So really it's a lot of the engineers are involved in this, maybe more than a lot of people would think. Their opinion, their specialty. Because I assume even engineers have what their wheelhouse is or what they prefer to see in their state or their municipality or whatever.

Cassie Jordan (17:56):

Yeah. So it's really educating engineers on the various products, the advantages and disadvantages of all of them.

Brett Ekart (18:02):

Okay. That makes sense. No, that's good. That's what always rack my brain, was what made an engineer go one way or the other. And I think some of it's cost, personal preference, and there's probably a lot of variables.

Cassie Jordan (18:18):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). And that's for right now, TV Pipe Solutions, one of our big focuses for the sales team and the field people are to get in front of those engineering firms. And it's while we love Snap-Tite and it's a very big product of ours, if that's not the right product, what are the advantages of the other product lines? Just so they know. But then they still come to us and say, "Okay, here's the project and I want your guys' opinion as reline experts." And that's what we're trying to become.

Brett Ekart (18:48):

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So without naming specific contractors or job sites or instances, have you ever ran across the job where the wrong reline product was used and why do you think that that was?

Cassie Jordan (19:03):

Yes. So we actually sold a project and it wasn't anyone's fault necessarily, it's just that they hadn't gone through the entire pipe. So they went, glanced in it, it was a hundred feet and they thought, "Okay, we'll order the HDPE mechanical joint pipe, we'll get it installed." Well, in the few weeks that they got between them looking at it and the pipe ... this is the problem, and the pipe arriving, a deflection happened even further so that they couldn't get the size of pipe that they ordered all the way through. So then they were, and they'd already, but the problem is they already started pushing the pipe and snapping the joints. So at that point what they should've done was order smaller pipe and should've went all the way through and look to see that deflection and know that it could have collapsed a little more by the time they got the pipe.

Cassie Jordan (20:04):

So that's just, again, that's a lesson learned. That's a big oops, because what they ended up having to do was go in, order smaller pipe, extrusion weld. I mean, it was a lot messier and a lot more expensive for them in the long run.

Brett Ekart (20:17):

And so part of the key of, and I know this just from having InnerFlow and being involved with InnerFlow is the key to making sure you are aligning with the right size, is going through and measuring every few feet because the opening maybe may fit a 54-inch pipe, but somewhere in the middle where the road's been collapsing, that 54 may not fit through. So as you're shoving it through, you run into the deflection that you're talking about.

Cassie Jordan (20:42):

Right. And then you should have ordered a 48-inch pipe. So that's exactly right. Or looked at a different product that doesn't need, that can go down on a curvature or that can handle that downsizing. If you are worried about a flow, there's other options out there. Another one that comes to mind was a grounding job gone bad. They had installed a lot of oval pipe and brought in an inexperienced, because he was the cheapest option in the area. But he didn't know cellular grout, he knew concrete grout and pumped too heavy a concrete grout and collapsed one end of the pipe. But we worked with them, their reseller worked with them. We got on phone calls, we got outside engineering perspective and at the end of the day, we'll help do whatever we can to get it right. And give them the best options that we know of to fix it.

Brett Ekart (21:45):

So, mechanical joint, solid wall aside, what products out there excite you the most that you want to know more about because you think that that fits the wheelhouse for a lot of the projects that you've been looking at lately? Or is there just something out there that piques your interest on the reline side?

Cassie Jordan (22:08):

So some of the stuff that I really want to focus on is I want to personally go see a Centri-Pipe install. I think that this centrifugally cast spray liner is a really interesting option, especially in extremely large diameters in the right environments. I love profile wall. I think Weholite makes a great product. I just am curious when this option would be better suited in certain situations than a profile wall HDPE product.

Brett Ekart (22:37):

Cost wise is large diameter centrifugally cast, is that ... I assume it probably depends on the diameter, but is it in the same range as a profile wall pipe? Is it cheaper, more expensive?

Cassie Jordan (22:51):

In longer runs, it can be much more cost effective, partly due to shipping and some of it because once you get into larger pipe, you've got over height, over width on shipping and there's a lot of regulations on it. So there's part of that. Another thing I was going to mention too is in high fire areas, so forest service areas where they do worry about a lot of burning, they don't always want to look at HDPE. And some engineers will rule that out because-

Brett Ekart (23:21):

Just because of it caught fire.

Cassie Jordan (23:22):

Yeah, and HDPE has a fairly high, I don't even know what that is off the top of my head, burn threshold. But that could still be a concern where if you bring in a cement liner that's no longer a concern. If a fire goes through that pipe, you've got a cement liner in there versus an HDPE liner.

Brett Ekart (23:40):

We ran into that same issue with selling double wall HDPE corrugated pipe to forest service.

Cassie Jordan (23:48):


Brett Ekart (23:48):

They want steel culvert, because they don't want to take the chance that if a forest fire goes through there, it burns up the pipe. Now they had to come back in, replace the pipe, replace the road, it just creates an issue.

Cassie Jordan (24:02):

And when that steel culvert starts to rust out or the ground pressures start to collapse, then what do you do? So that's where we need to have other options. There's not a one solution fits all.

Brett Ekart (24:15):

That makes sense.

Cassie Jordan (24:16):

So I would like to dive into that one more. I'm really excited about the HydraTite joint seal that we're just starting to represent. I'm looking forward to that and I know that we've met with a couple of County maintenance crews and there's not a lot of RCP pipe out there, but there's just enough where I think that product will be a good fit for us.

Brett Ekart (24:41):

Okay. So give me a project that you've sold or been around or seen done or that you're the most proud of as far as like either you've helped them find a good solution for it or it was just a big project for you that you undertook.

Cassie Jordan (25:01):

Well, off the top of my head, there was a fairly large oval job that we had gone back and forth with, with the reseller in Kansas that we ended up getting with Kansas City Turnpike. So I think that ... and the reason I say that is because they got our product, they used it for the first time and they loved it. So then they became repeat customers. So I think that when that happens, those type of projects stick out in your head, it's like, "Wow, that's really cool." That was, it's worth the time invested to make sure that they have all the materials they needed to get on a call and talk to them about the differences of products and why there's certain ones that fit. But then they also become longtime customers.

Brett Ekart (25:48):

So, I mean, essentially as a reseller where you're not the boots on the ground, you're not the one installing it, you're not the engineer designing it. I mean you are the middleman, selling the product, doing the transportation, all the crease in all the tracks in between everything else to make sure the project goes off as smoothly as possible.

Cassie Jordan (26:08):


Brett Ekart (26:09):

I mean, that is, I mean, essentially [crosstalk 00:26:11].

Cassie Jordan (26:11):

Well and it's building the relationships, because people will buy from people they like. At the end of the day, if I genuinely like the product, but I genuinely don't like the person on the other end of that product, I may go find another product, whether I like it or not. Because I don't want to work with that person. So I think you say projects, but I think, and sometimes it's just relationship building and managing those relationships so that even when you have to call with bad news, like your trucker broke down and is going to be three days late delivering, or they've ran out of hours and they have to send another whatever it is, that happens in this industry. I've had to make those phone calls. But trying to say that we're doing everything we can to fix it.

Brett Ekart (26:52):

That makes sense.

Cassie Jordan (26:53):

And make sure they trust you that you are really doing that.

Brett Ekart (26:57):

Yep. So what do you enjoy the most about the industry, your job? I mean, what gets you up every day?

Cassie Jordan (27:07):

That I don't know what I don't know. I know that's a terrible-

Brett Ekart (27:12):

There's a lot to still learn.

Cassie Jordan (27:14):

A lot to still learn. Coming from the tech world, technology's always changing and that's true. But like I have told you before in conversations is you could leave from one tech company to another and you just needed to learn that new technology. But the channel partners and the sale, they didn't change. This is, I literally have to learn an entire new industry and so many products, and then a contractor just called me yesterday and was telling me about another product that he wants me to look into and maybe consider repping. And that's where it's like, "I never had heard of this one." There's so many products out there and there's just a lot to take in.

Cassie Jordan (27:57):

So I think that ... and then being a thought leader. There's not a lot of resellers that cover eight states. So I think we have a chance to fill a void or big shoes that don't even exist and come out as just here, look at this company. I mean, they went from three yards to a huge, more Northwest, and even outside of the Northwest, all the way the Rockies brand.

Brett Ekart (28:26):

Yeah. I think, yeah, that that's what gets me up every day. And the reason for starting the podcast is there's just so much out there in the reline industry that we didn't know even existed. And that's what excites me is like we've been in the pipe business for so long, for so many years and there's this whole industry out there that we didn't even know was there. And now that we're in the middle of it, it's cool, it's infrastructure driven, it's necessary. I mean, the relationships that I've made over the last two years has been crazy. It's just been super interesting. So this is a little bit off the beaten path, but give me one or two people that have been influential in your life or your career, somebody that you've looked up to or ... whether it's previous job, parents, anything.

Cassie Jordan (29:26):

Yeah. Well, I'll stick with the reline answer first. So Hugh Mickel, when I was hired, when I knew nothing about anything, I will tell you that guy was just a wonderful mentor. While he represented certain product lines of reline material, he also knew that I needed to understand the industry. And so he sent me all kinds of PowerPoint presentations because he's a thought leader. And so he wanted me to know about all the things out there that I could possibly learn about, whether at the time it was the contact products or it was InnerFlow or it was Snap-Tite or PVC or ADS, there's just, there's so much. And he wanted me to have a, "Here's a playbook that you should be using as just a wrap your head around in your first six months of this crazy world." So I really respected him and when I had problems or questions, I would definitely call him.

Cassie Jordan (30:32):

Outside of that, I'd say my dad is a huge inspiration, because when I told him to tell him I was going to leave my job and go into the construction industry, he went, "You're a brave girl." Since he's been in construction for 40 years. He was like, "I can't believe you're going to do it." But he's like, "I know you'll have fun and you'll get yourself some pink boots and go out." So yeah, those probably ... and my dad supports me no matter what, but I just think it was finally, he was like, he now literally, Thanksgiving dinner, I can have a conversation with him about jobs and projects and we're speaking the same language where-

Brett Ekart (31:14):

Now you know what an excavator is. [crosstalk 00:31:14] is [crosstalk 00:31:15].

Cassie Jordan (31:17):

Oh, I talk to him about these installs I go to and I get to watch and he thinks it's great because it's like, "Holy crap. He now understands what I'm watching." Where before we were two different languages, he didn't know anything about the tech world. My dad barely got a smart phone a few years ago.

Brett Ekart (31:33):

I like it. Hugh is a great guy. I've met him. Hugh taught me a ton. So if you say Hugh, that rings true for me as well. I mean, he's right up there. He's right up there with me. As far as one of the guys that I really looked up to. I mean, he's not currently in the reline world anymore per se, but maybe we'll recruit him back.

Cassie Jordan (31:54):


Brett Ekart (31:54):

See, if we can get him back in. All right. One last question. What can be done to bring more awareness to the reline industry and all the people involved in this great industry? Is anything off the top of your head that we could do to put out there to say, "Hey, this industry exists, this a big part of 2020 and beyond because of all the infrastructure that needs repaired." What more can be done in your eyes?

Cassie Jordan (32:20):

No, I think things like this exactly. I think that the lack of use of technology, because these guys are out in the field and they're construction workers and they're not spending all their time in front of their computer, but when they do, give them valuable content, give them something where they're going to learn. I know there's a lot of shows out there that we do attend. We'll be at the UCT Conference down in Fort Worth in January with Snap-Tite. We'll be with Snap-Tite at the No Dig Show in Denver in-

Brett Ekart (32:51):


Cassie Jordan (32:52):

... April.

Brett Ekart (32:53):

March or April, April I believe.

Cassie Jordan (32:55):

So we're going be front and center with our brand so that we can answer questions, we can learn, we want to talk to industry experts. But I think bringing everyone together with this easier platform, they don't even have to come to you. They can just watch it from their computer. It makes huge, I mean, it makes a huge difference. So I think you'll see people adopt more technology, social media, I mean all of that is only growing because it's where everyone's headed. It's where everyone's at. It's where everyone communicates.

Brett Ekart (33:26):

Makes sense. All right. If anybody wants to get ahold of you, how can they get ahold of you online? Name.

Cassie Jordan (33:33):

So I'm on LinkedIn, TV Pipe Solutions is on Instagram. We're on YouTube. We're on Facebook. You can email me at So I'm pretty easy to get ahold of.

Brett Ekart (33:55):

All right. Thank you, Cassie. Appreciate it.

Cassie Jordan (33:56):

Yeah, thanks, Brett.

Brett Ekart (33:57):

Take care. America's aging underground infrastructure will need to be dealt with in the upcoming years. Our mission with Reline Unknown is to help individuals and organizations gain insight into the pipe reline and infrastructure world and help process the key decision, reline or replace. Thank you for listening.